Now I have a question to ask you mothy people. I received some plastic boxes and tubes to put the moths in, but they are quite small and some of these moths are big, and many flap like crazy no matter their size. I did put them all in the fridge to cool down and only took out one box or tube at a time to photograph the moths, but I found they were harming their wings which is quite apparent when you look at what is left inside the boxes - loads of scales and hairs. Some of the moths featured here look like they have lost a lot of scales too, and I feel really bad about it.
I wondered what you do? I was thinking about using some of the plastic containers that I use for freezing food, which are big enough that the moths can flap without harming their wings, but still small enough to put in the fridge to chill them out a bit, if necessary.
As for these eggs, they were laid by Mrs Oak Eggar and they haven't hatched yet but I will put them out today on some bramble leaves which are touching the ground, but I expect the eggs will just roll off. I have read that they may not be viable when laid like this anyway. It was nice to see them though - aren't they pretty!
OK the first moth I need help with. I know it's a Thorn, but it looks more to me like a September Thorn than an August Thorn, but it was photographed on 22nd July.... however I see from the Hants Moths 'Flying tonight' posts that the September Thorn can be seen last week of July (how confusing is that?!).
By the way apologies for my filthy looking fingernails - I thought they were clean!!! Also I haven't bothered with the Latin names as I'm not even sure what the moths are. I'll add the Latin later if I get some definite IDs.
Edit - it's an August Thorn (Ennomos quercinaria).
This cute little moth looks like a pale version of the Clouded Border, but they seem to come in variations of colour and also markings.
Edit - this is a Clouded Border (Lomaspilis marginata).
This next one is an I haven't a clue moth. But interestingly the two photos were taken with different cameras and look at the colour difference! The top pale one was taken with the Canon Powershot SX50, the bottom one with the Canon 600D, both set on the same colour setting, both with pop up flashes without any diffusion.
Edit - this could possibly be another Thorn moth.
I wondered if this might be a Knot Grass? I see plenty of their larvae here.
Edit - yes most likely a Knot Grass (Acronicta rumicis).
Possibly a Dark Arches?
Edit - yes it's a Dark Arches (Apamea monoglypha).
This one belongs in the I don't have a clue category - sorry I haven't got a photo of it with its wings open.
Edit - it's a Peacock moth (Macaria notata).
No idea either.
Edit - possibly a Small Dusty Wave (Idaea seriata).
Sallow Kitten who has lost a lot of its markings?
Edit - either a Sallow Kitten (Furcula furcula) or a Poplar Kitten (Furcula bifida).
This by the way, is another reason why I decided to buy the moth trap now and not next year. Keith came home from a cycle ride with some caterpillar photos for me to ID - the first was an Oak Eggar but it quickly got forgotten when I saw this one. I didn't know what it was but knew it was something special! A quick look in my insect book which has caterpillars as well as moths and I found it straight off. Not that I am likely to see the moth this year, it's too late now. But HUGE excitement to know these guys are around in my neighbourhood. This was crossing the road that runs next to the field next to my veggie patch. K did wait until it got to the grass verge before cycling off, by the way. :-)
What is it? Why, it's the larva of an Emperor Moth (Saturnia pavonia). So it got me all excited and thinking about moths, and now look where I am. There is no going back..... :-))))))))
The thorn is an August Thorn- the kink in the outer cross line distinguishes it from the September Thorn. Next is a Clouded Border. The third looks like a species of Bordered Beauty without the dark lines (although hard to tell without knowing the size). The fourth is a Knot Grass or Poplar Grey- hard to tell from the pic. The fifth looks like a Dark Arches. The sixth is a Peacock judging from the markings. Seventh could be a Mullein Wave, but again without the scale it's hard to tell. And the eighth, a Sallow or a Poplar Kitten (hard to tell them apart in a pic). A nice selection, well done :o) xx
ReplyDeleteAs to the pooters it's a tough one. My moths are generally all very sleepy so I don't get much in the way of scales coming off. I suspect you'd get the same thing happening in a larger pot. How big are your pooters? Mine are squares 7x7x3 cm and most of the moths are OK in them. I don't pot many though- only those I need to check ids of. The others I look at where they are (asleep on the egg boxes), note them down, tip them on paper for a pic if needs be then put them back on the egg box and back in the trap which I leave till nightfall before putting out in the garden. I try and do minimal disturbance and to be honest if they were getting that damaged I'd let them go. Hope that helps xx
Oh thanks so much for the help, CT. A Euro coin is about the same size as a pound coin if that helps. I'll have a google of these species you mention.
DeleteI don't know what a pooter is. I guess you mean the container? The tube shaped ones are quite small and the square ones about the size you mention. I can't bring inside a huge heavy moth trap so I have to get the moths into containers to bring inside. One day I may be able to lift it (I haven't even tried to see how heavy it is) but right now lifting weights is out! From now on I'm only going to put the new ones into pots but I couldn't take too many photos outside as the light was too low as it was too early. I'll see how it goes with bigger containers and maybe they won't flap so much. I would ask K to bring the trap inside but he doesn't do early mornings so I'd be waiting on tenterhooks for too long..... :-) Thanks for your advice. xx
Stupid of me- I didn't even notice the coin (too busy enjoying the moths!). In that case it's probably too small to be a Bordered Beauty and the lack of dark border is wrong for that anyway. Praps it's a continental species that we don't get here in the UK?
DeleteYup, pooters are insect collecting pots. The skinner trap isn't heavy for when you're able to lift things again but I understand it's too much for now. I wonder whether transferring the egg boxes into a lidded plastic box and bringing them in that way might work if it wasn't too heavy? Give them half an hour to settle and then look at them that way?
Some moth species are more feisty than others- the ones with wing shapes similar to flutters I always find are more inclined to take off, and if they get hot in pots they'll also flap about more. I don't bother with the smaller cylindrical pooters as I find them too tiny for the moths to fit comfortably in, but the squares are OK. xx
ps- just looking at the mystery one again- are you sure it isn't another Thorn with wings held in uncharacteristic way?
DeleteI'll reply properly later but got help from a friend of a friend on Facebook, a Dutch guy. He reckons first one is a Thorn but wasn't sure which one but the one with the euro coin he reckons is August Thorn. Grey one is Knot Grass and the small one in the lid is Small Dusty Wave. The rest as you said. I'm on my Kindle and just came in for a lie down on my bed as been doing a bit of weeding and want to go for a walk later so need to rest now! Be back later and thanks! xx
DeleteNot sure where to reply now cos I see more conversation going on below with Amanda! Yur idea about putting the egg boxes into a plastic storage box is brilliant, because I have two boxes that I used for the Swallowtails, so can use both of them. K says the box isn't particularly heavy but I want to put it quite away from the house under some trees next time - which will be tomorrow night. Thanks again. xx
DeleteJust what I was going to say! Actually, as you know Mandy, I am totally useless at ID. But I can appreciate the beauty of these lovely creatures and the photos as usual are great. In fact, if it wasn't for people like you and 'Countryside Tales' I would never see them never mind ID them and for that I thank you.
ReplyDeleteHi Debrazzaman and sorry I am tardy replying. I think you have more things on your plate than worrying about IDing the insects that you find because you are so busy with looking after your menagerie and dealing with your amazing harvest! I'm glad you enjoy seeing them though, and if you haven't looked at CT's blog you should cos she gets out and about a lot and sees the most amazing wildlife (and has cute dogs)! I did start reading your blog earlier and got as far as the new kitty...... will get to the rest of it tomorrow I think. :-)
DeleteI am having computer problems today, possibly due to thunder storms, but there was great excitement last night when we had several hawkmoths on the nicotiana....and we have a picture, I have trawled the images on Google but there are so many alike so I suppose it's just practice at seeing the finer points. I will have a look at CT's blog when the computer behaves!
DeleteOoh that must have been great to see! Yes I think IDing is difficult at the best of times but better if you have really clear close up photos from various angles and seeing the underwings too, for any extra patterns, like with my eyed hawkmoth. Look forward to seeing the photo. :-)
DeleteGlad CT helped out as I would have struggled with these my self, would have got the dark arches.
ReplyDeleteI bought some cocktail sticks (not to hold the moths down! ) but the container they come in is just the right size for me, they have blue lids so the moths like to hide in this part were it's dark. In the morning most of the moths are quite happy to sit on the egg cartons, same as CT if I want to photograph them and they don't look like they are going to sit I will move them into the fridge, I also have some larger tubs we put holes in the top, I can fit a few pieces of carton in them, so the moths soon settle in one of these if they are a bit flappy or cover them with a dark cloth. My trap is just out side the back door on a little table, open it up and just bring in one carton at a time, blocking the gap with a piece of wood then covering the whole thing with a cloth.
If you need to bring the box in as you are catching much more than me, I would just block the gap, cover with a cloth and get OH to bring it in later, they should be quite happy in the box as long as it is not in the sun.
Hope this helps a little...
Amanda xx
If the holes are for breathing you don't need them- moths breath through spiracles on their sides as they don't have lungs, so they can sit happily in a fairly air-tight container for a day xx
DeleteThanks CT, they were for breathing ! so have learned something new to day..
DeleteWanted to tell you both I saw a White-letter Hairstreak butterfly at the park to day, feeding on a thistle (have photos) how cools that !
I didn't know that either about them not needing breathing holes in the storage boxes because that was another question I forgot to ask!! Right I'll answer both of you here - CT I replied again above about your idea about using a plastic box to carry in the egg boxes which is perfect.
DeleteAmanda - thanks for your general advice and good to hear about covering them over or putting them under bits of egg boxes in another box - plenty more egg boxes here for that. Thing is you don't know all this stuff beforehand and there was no advice booklet with the trap and I haven't really come across this sort of advice on the internet!
And woohoo Amanda about that Hairstreak - we will all be envious of that one, look forward to seeing it!
So much for my walk, it bloody clouded over so no point going out looking for butterflies..... oh well there is always tomorrow. :-) xx
I think that the colour difference is related to the background colour. One photo was taken in landscape mode and so you were able to zoom in a bit more and this meant much less of the dark inner part of the Euro coin was included in the photo. Each camera will use an algorithm to "balance" the colours in each photo, with more of a dark background the overall balance will be different from a lighter background.
ReplyDeleteI hadn't realised your name was an anagram of doughnut! I don't really understand the technical stuff - but my photos are all cropped and both were taken in landscape mode. So not sure if that still makes sense of what you suggest? :-)
DeleteMore wonderful moths - you must be over the moon with the species you are trapping :) I promise id does get easier - the more you do. Apart from the dreaded pug species - have more or less given up with them apart from the more distinctive species!
ReplyDeleteAn id tip for Dark Arches is the white W mark at the base of the wing. For the larger moths (not that I get many!!) I use the square plastic pots from ALS which measure 70x70x30mm ST08a and find they are big enough.
Love the Emperor moth caterpillar :) Am hoping I get some more moths emerge next year - have put cocoons away again in a cool place. I was offered some more caterpillars this year but we are that upside down from decorating room after room that I decided I'd leave it but I do miss them.
Look forward to seeing more goodies soon :)
Thanks Ragged Robin - it is very different this morning as trapping no. 2 has caught the grand total if 11 moths, 3 of which flew off! I'm guessing it's the cold nights we are having. Still I won't be inundated today..... :-)
DeleteThanks for the ID tip about the Dark Arches - I can see that clearly now.
I knew you'd be interested in the Emperor cat - I thought of you when I discovered what it was! Yup it can get a bit overwhelming raising cats so I don't blame you having a break, but you have the chance of more eclosing next year, which will be great fun again.
Hi Mandy.
ReplyDeleteApologies for lack of commenting on your lovely blog but I have been away from the computer for a couple of weeks. Anyhow, so pleased you have discovered the joy of mothing! You seem to be doing really well at it too with lots of variety. Trying to identify some of these can be a nightmare, unlike butterflies there are SO many choices. I really should get mine up and running again. The bulb has blown again and needs replacing ;-)
Don't apologise JJ! I see you've posted about your trip away - I have to have another read as I only briefly looked this morning so will visit soon.
DeleteYes the mothing could become a bit addictive, but the IDing is so hard and I don't want to keep asking here all the time. I have one ID book for the UK and another which is a general insect book for Europe, but keep finding moths that I just can't find in the books or on UK sites...... I think I'll be spending time trying to ID them from European moth sites during winter! Hope you get a new bulb and get your trap out soon! :-)